By Eric Orff. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. Have a photo. John. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. Mike you're on the air. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. Love hearing these stories. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. Caller: I do. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. Infinite Scroll Enabled. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. Peter Biello: Wow. Select image for larger view. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. But you've done some reporting on this. Chapter X, Predators, Panther (Mountain Lion) From History of NH Game and Furbearers by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. Think you've seen a mountain lion? Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. Tell us your story. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Peter Biello: Well yeah. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. I found a second scat scent both to him. It's good to talk to you. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. John you're on the air. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. www.wildlife.state.nh.us, Buy or Renew Your Saltwater Fishing License, Great Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. 50 feet above the most. So it is possible to see male Mountain lions roam into the northeast - there was one hit by a car in CT a number of years back - but we don't have a breeding population of Mountain lions in New England. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. I mean it wasn't your idea. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. It was some sort of a Lion Mountain Lion animal. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. And it's not really strong. I'm Peter B yellow. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. She is renowned for tracking. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. They are the same thing. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. Oh you saw him online. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. Chartered: 1973 . The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. 44-H Links. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. We're gonna talk about sightings in this part of the program as well we'd love to hear your story. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. OK. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. Caller: Oh hi. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. Patrick Tate: It's wow interesting that you brought this up because I've had people report I saw cardamom. Not one picture of him online while the person meet with us. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. Give today. Patrick Tate: Yes. Many people in New Hampshire have claimed to have seen mountain lions. Your support makes this news available to everyone. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. And it was unmistakable. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. Thanks for calling. They just end up in these places. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. And so. Residents Report Mountain Lion Sighting By Elysia Rodriguez Published August 11, 2015 A southern New Hampshire neighborhood believes a mountain lion is roaming the woods near their homes. Sam Evans-Brown: I just want to say the bang and word you just heard I think to me exemplifies why it's really hard to come up with with positive you know 100 percent certain evidence that you've that what you've got is a mountain lions. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. It's listed as population of least concern. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. New Hampshire Public Radio | Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. It doesn't happen as much anymore. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Post your sightings and NH photos here! Yes. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? Mountain lions don't usually travel more than 100 miles from where they are born. That's pretty elaborate. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. They're just moving around freely. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. I'm Peter Biello. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. Absolutely. Mountain lions can be found throughout Arizona, and data suggests the populations are not only stable, but growing. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. No I saw a camel. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. Yes. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. Thank you very much for listening. So I reached down to grab the camera and looked back and like a ghost it's gone. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. About Lions. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. Like why would you want one wildlife. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? Part II. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. Rick your thoughts. nh.gov | privacy policy | accessibility policy Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. We'd love to have you in the queue. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. Early in the morning. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. Why are there so many false positives? Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also.